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Posted: **Tue Jun 22, 2004 7:15 pm**

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JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES “REGENERATED” AS A NATION FROM APOSTASY -- HOW AND WHY?

See Chatroom Discussion at this link: https://copilot.microsoft.com/conversat ... gJTTzpgsHr

Part 1.

Jesus said to his first century disciples,

"And, Look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things." -- Matthew 28:20

Now, according to the Watchtower Society and 6 million Jehovah's Witnesses, Jesus "has been with" so-called "christians" for the past 2,000 years, right up till Armageddon. But are we truly considering what such a viewpoint then, would inevitably mean?

Adopting that viewpoint then, would mean the following: It would mean that Jesus "has been with" his so-called followers, all through the many cruelties that religion has perpetrated upon other men, making them slaves, stealing their wealth and the massacre countless civilizations as being the "infidels" and "enemies" of Christ. Mankind's sanguinary wars, the Catholic Inquisition Years, and the bloody years of warfare down thru the centuries, all done under the banner of and in the name of “Christianity.”

So do we really want to say that Jesus has "been with" so-called christians, those who profess "christianity" all down thru the ages, since the first century till our day? No, this would not make good sense to say such. However, it would make more sense to say that Jesus, based upon what he taught his disciples at Luke 19:11-27 when he gave them the illustration of the "minas" that he really came to "settle accounts" with them in the year of 70 c.e, when he "slaughtered" all those who "hated" him and "did not want him to become king over them." This "slaughter" proved to the complete destruction of the natural nation of Israel, where as promised, they received from the hand of Jesus, the "baptism of fire" of complete destruction. -- Matthew 3:11, 12; Luke 19:14, 27

Therefore this would mean that Jesus kept his promise and that he would be "with you [first century christians] all the days until the conclusion of the system of things," WHICH OCCURRED IN 70 C.E. So then, the first century "anointed" followers of his, could rightly expect that Jesus would be with them right up to the "conclusion of the [Jewish] system of things," in 70 c.e. as he promised. -- Matthew 28:20

This would mean that Jesus Christ could have made his Second "Parousia" or Coming as he promised, in the year of 70 c.e. Of course, most people think that the battle of Armageddon is fought at the time of Jesus' second coming. Jehovah's Witnesses are taught Jesus' Second "Parousia" [or so-called "presence"] began in 1914, but his Second "Coming" occurs at Armageddon. So it becomes a Two (2) Stage Coming of sorts to Jehovah's Witnesses...something that has confused many who try to understand the teachings of the Watchtower Society.

(For more detailed information on Jesus' Second "Parousia" occurring in 70 c.e. see the article entitled: The Second "Parousia" of Christ -- Reexamined)

Therefore Jehovah Witnesses, because of what they have been taught, have great difficulty in seeing the possibility of Jesus coming in the first century, actually coming in 70 c.e., and understanding that this second coming of Jesus in 70 c.e. has nothing...nothing to do with Jesus bringing the destructive day of Armageddon upon all nations that prove to be disobedient to God, at the complete end of mankind's wicked rulership on earth.

However, Paul showed that the "second coming" of Jesus, where he comes and "receives" home his disciples actually has nothing to do with Jesus bringing the Great Destructive Day of Armageddon itself, upon all wicked mankind itself. Paul pointed this out at 1 Corinthians 15:23, 24 where he stated, referring to the different times for God to perform the resurrection,

"But each one in his own rank; Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who belong to the Christ during his presence [parousia]. Next, the end, when he hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power." -- 1 Corinthians 15:23, 24

Did you notice above that Paul refers to three (3) different resurrections that are to occur. First he refers to the resurrection of Jesus, which occurred just a short time after Jesus' death, on Nisan 16. Then he states that "all those who belong to christ" then receive their resurrection, that is, first century "anointed" ones, that are resurrected to heavenly life. Now notice this point very carefully. Paul said this occurred at Jesus' "PAROUSIA", or second coming. Yes, this heavenly resurrection then, we should expect to occur at Jesus "parousia" or second coming, wherein ALL, and that is all of christ's "anointed" disciples were to be resurrected, together to heavenly life. Paul spoke of this situation by saying:

"For this is what we tell you by Jehovah's word that we the living who survive to the presence [parousia] of the Lord shall in no way precede those who have fallen asleep in death; because the Lord himself will descend from heaven and with a commanding call, with an archangel's voice and with God's trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first. Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we shall always be with the Lord." -- 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

And so from reading the above, we could see how all of this could be quite possible, plausible even, when we look at the matter as having happened, that the resurrection for all "anointed" first century ones, in the year of 70 c.e. It would all make sense. But even though Jesus had his second "coming" or "parousia" in the year of 70 c.e., it still would not have anything to do with his bringing the Destructive Day of Armageddon. In fact, it would be at this time, just after the time of the destructions of mankind's governments at Armageddon, that Jesus would perform the final resurrection...an earthly resurrection of those who are dead and are destined to receive life upon earth. Yes, this final resurrection, would be an earthly resurrection itself. This would be the resurrection that Paul said be a resurrection to life for the "righteous and the unrighteous" ones upon earth. So then, this is the promised EARTHLY resurrection that God promised mankind. -- Acts 24:15; John 5:28, 29

This is how Paul describes it:

"Next, the end, when he hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power." -- 1 Corinthians 15:24

Yes, the next time of a resurrection, Paul shows, then would be "at the end." Paul said, "Next, the end" ... the end when Jesus "hands over the kingdom" just after he destroys "all government and all authority and power." It will be at this time, that Jesus resurrects humans from the dead and empties the graves of all mankind. But the key point we are trying to make here, is that, "the end" that Paul refers to, then is not to be confused with his second "parousia" or second "coming" which is when Jesus resurrects his "anointed" followers to heavenly life. No, this particular time, then, is quite different from the "end," when the destruction of the governments of nations, occurs at Armageddon. -- Revelation 16:16

So we are talking about two distinctly different things, the time when Jesus resurrects his "anointed" disciples and the time when Jesus brings the "end" of "all governments" in opposition to Jehovah. Theses are two different time periods and should be understood as such.

Therefore, if we began to consider things in this light, we could begin to see how Jesus Christ could have returned indeed, in the year of 70 c.e. and resurrected his "anointed" first century followers to heavenly life, and not have any conflict with Jesus' Final act of bringing to an "end" all the governments of mankind that are in opposition to Jehovah God, at the Great War of Armageddon, which occurs … “at the end”, at the end, Paul said. Therefore, understanding matters this way, finally, we can see how all of this could work together, and make perfect sense.

As we look back, since the year of 70 c.e., we are reminded of all of the atrocities that have occurred since that time. And many of them in the name of religion and christianity. And we remember that this bloodshed and mayhem of mankind brutalizing others of the human family, continued, yes continued some 1800 years later, right up to the time that the Watchtower Society said that Pastor Russell supposedly "escaped" APOSTATE Christendom...yes Christendom the most reprehensible part of Babylon The Great as they claim. Yes, they say that CT Russell, escaped "Babylon," or Christendom, as an "anointed" person. This is what we were taught, isn't it? – Ecclesiastes 8:9; Revelation 18:4

Yes, they teach that Pastor Russell was "anointed" right in the midst of Babylon the Great, the world empire of false religion, do they not? It is taught that CT Russell was a member of the churches of christendom when he received his "anointing." And not only him, but many others who later became followers of CT Russell, they too were supposedly "anointed" right within Babylon The Great, churches of Christendom too, before they joined CT Russell's movement. Russell is even taught his followers during his day, to "get out of her," Babylon The Great, and for "anointed" ones to join his movement.

But in such a teaching, there is a flaw.

Think: If Christendom was completely "apostate" as we know they were teaching such blasphemous things like the trinity doctrine, a “burning hell” and other completely "apostate" teachings, then how could Jehovah and Jesus go into such a FILTHY ENVIRONMENT itself, and "anoint" someone, we must ask? Now mind you, they were teaching the blasphemous doctrine of "trinity", "hellfire" and other blasphemous teachings, which would make the entire people of christendom and its religions, completely filthy in God's eyes. They would have to be viewed by Jehovah God, completely at that time as being yes, APOSTATE. And there would always be the question of whether apostate Christendom, who claims that Jesus is God Almighty Himself, could ever be permitted into a covenantal relationship with Jehovah, since they show outright hatred for God's Name and actually deny His very existence and His unique claim to desire "exclusive devotion" for Himself, and by way of their blasphemous teachings for centuries on end. So then, how could CT Russell become "anointed" in such a filthy, apostate environment, when he was a member of the churches of Christendom? How? -- Hebrews 6:4-6; Hebrews 10:26-29

So then, we need to separate the idea in our minds of the nation of "Israel" and how they became such in its initial stage, from their actually becoming QUALIFIED for an "anointing", which the bible shows is to be at a much, later time. However, when the actual “anointing” occurs for the nation of Israel, itself, then they can rightfully be said to have become "christians" per say. Nevertheless, as has been shown above, the prophecy of Joel 2:28, 29 shows, this would by necessity, have to become a future event, in the last days, when such would occur for the nation of "Israel." Bible prophecy indicates that “Israel,” was to first fall into "apostasy,” be severely disciplined by God’s Hand, and suffer great hardship, long before they were to receive or truly QUALIFY for their future "anointing" before God. Bible prophecy shows this.

(To Be Continued)

Posted: **Tue Jun 22, 2004 7:21 pm**

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JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES “REGENERATED” AS A NATION FROM APOSTASY -- HOW AND WHY?

Part 2.

In fact, Jesus himself provides the vital clue for us.

Jesus said at Matthew 19:28 this very important statement:

"Jesus said to them; Truly I say to you, in the re-creation [Greek:palingenesis, regeneration, rebirth] when the Son of man sits down upon his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also yourselves sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel."

Here is what we can possibly glean from the above powerful verse. We see...

1) Jesus is in heaven, sitting upon "his glorious throne"

2) his apostles are already "resurrected' to heavenly life, and are with him in heaven "judging" the "12 tribes of Israel"

3) an "Israel" which exists in COMPLETE APOSTASY ON EARTH [and not in heaven] thus NEEDS a spiritual "palingenesis" or rebirth, or regeneration of faith. In other words, "Israel" the nation itself, have suffered nationwide spiritual collapse.

First of all, we see that Jesus is in heaven with his 12 apostles. So Jesus is clearly pointing out for us to know fully, the apostles have been resurrected to heavenly life. However, we also know, that if Peter and other faithful ones are resurrected, then, all of the first century Christians have also been resurrected along with Peter and the other apostles to heavenly life. How do we know this? We know this because when Jesus would return, he promised to take all of his faithful disciples to heaven with him at the same time. – John 14:2, 3

As so, it would be safe to assume that Jesus and his first century followers, all those “anointed” in the first century are then, in heaven with Jesus … all the while he and his apostles are “judging” the "12 tribes of Israel" ON EARTH. This point helps us to appreciate that Jesus must have come back for his disciples and “received” them to heaven, long before this “Israel”, this earthly "Israel" then came into existence. This is also suggested by Acts 3:20, 21 which says:

“and that he may send forth the Christ appointed for you, Jesus, whom heaven, indeed, must hold within itself until the times of restoration of all things of which God spoke through the mouth of his holy prophets of old time.” -- Acts 3:20, 21

So then, Jesus and all of his first century anointed followers, must then "remain in heaven," on their “judgment” seats, as the spiritual “restoration” of EARTHLY “Israel” should proceed. Therefore, we must then ask ourselves, who would make up these “12 tribes of [earthly] Israel” that Jesus clearly said he and the apostles would be “judging” while they existed upon earth? (Luke 22:30) Yes, who are they? Who is this mystery “Israel” of our modern-day times, that would need to be “judged” before God and man, while Jesus and his apostles were to "sit upon their thrones" in heaven, doing their heavenly "judging" work?

The above bible account also mentions that “Israel” must receive a “Palingenesis,” or spiritual “rebirth,” or “regeneration” of their faith. (See NWT footnote on Matt. 19:28 in large print ref bible) This means, Israel at this time, as the nation of “Israel”, has fallen deep into spiritual “apostasy” necessitating such a move on God’s part toward them.

We know this "palingenesis" is a special situation, since all "anointed" christians of the first century had already received of a special "regeneration" or "rebirth" of faith, coming over from their past environment and background. Paul showed this at Titus 3:5, which says,

“…owing to no works in righteousness that we had performed, but according to his mercy he saved us through the bath that brought us to life [ [Greek: lou-trou palingenesias, or the “bath of regeneration”] and through the making of us new by holy spirit.” – Titus 3:5 (See footnote NWT large prt Ref. Bible)

The above verse shows all "anointed" ones of the first century, had indeed already experienced a "bath that brought them to life" before God. They had already experienced that particular spiritual "bath", which was the grand "palingenesis" that Jesus spoke of in Matthew 19:28, that was to occur for “Israel” of our last days. This "palingensis" then, this "rebirth," this "bath" enabled first century "christians" to become to God, a "new creation," something completely brand new before Him. It would be a “bath” that would completely “cleansed” the entire nation of Israel of their past sins, and completely restore them to God’s favor, after, Jehovah would “save them” from their many “acts of lawlessness and apostasies,” as the prophet Ezekiel predicted He would. – Ezekiel 37:23 [see NWT Ref. Bible footnote]; 2 Corinthians 5:5, 17

Vines Expository makes this revealing statement on the subject of Matthew 19:28, "apostasy" and apostate "Israel" itself of the future, and its true need for a spiritual "restoration" for the future. It states:

"In Matt. 19:28 the word is used, in the Lord's discourse, in the wider sense, of a "restoration of all things" (Acts 3:21, RV) when, as a result of the second advent of Christ, Jehovah "sets His King upon His holy hill of Zion" (Ps. 2:6), and Israel, NOW IN APOSTASY, is restored to its destined status, in the recognition and under the benigh sovereighty of its Messiah." -- Vines Expository of New Testament Words pg. 513 par. # 1

So then, we find in the last days, bible scholars know, based upon what Jesus said above, that "Israel" in the last days, was to be found to be in COMPLETE APOSTASY, led by the "man of lawlessness." - 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12

Now there is the delicate point that must be observed here:

Based upon Jesus' original statement above, we come to understand this most important point: Israel, then must come into being or existence WITHOUT BEING ANOINTED. They must first, become the nation of "Israel," and then later, yes later, then they must "fall away" into complete apostasy BEFORE ever receiving an "anointing" of any kind.

Therefore it behooves us to remember something very important:

Ancient “Israel” became such, not at Pentecost, when first century followers of Jesus were anointed. No, but Ancient “Israel” actually became “Israel” or God’s Special People and Nation, by being underneathe the “cloud of Jehovah” and being led across and in the midst of the Red Sea and thereby receiving their initial "baptism" as a nation. (Exodus 14:19-21; 1 Corinthians 10:1, 2) Also, they became “Israel” by later accepting the terms of the Covenantal Arrangement & Law of God, as a “priestly nation” at Mount Sinai. They also became “Israel,” by means of God setting up an imperfect man, the man “Moses”, to lead them as their first “mediator”, the one that was their go-between person, between God and the nation. This is how Ancient “Israel” initially became “Israel,” yes, by accepting the responsibility of Carrying God’s Sacred Name upon themselves before all other nations. – Numbers 6:27; Deut. 28:10

Therefore, the modern-day Nation of Israel, could also become such, thru water baptism and by accepting the terms of Covenantal Agreement of God, and accepting the responsibility to live up to the terms of such a sacred agreement. And of course, they would have to accept the fact that Jesus Christ, would prove to be their true “mediator” before God too. They would have to recognize that the blood of Jesus would have to be acknowledged as the “means” that made all of this possible. And this all occurred in the year of 1931 for Jehovah’s Witnesses as a people and nation. They became Modern Day Israel, of our modern times in the year of 1931. But still, as a nation and people, they were not “anointed” as of yet. They would have to qualify for such an “anointing” itself from God first. – Joel 2:28, 29

So, when we think back to what CT Russell asserted, he nor his followers from the churches of Christendom, then could have never been “anointed” while they existed with the false religions of this world.

Further, we need also say the following too. Actually, if the nation of Jehovah’s Witnesses were today truly “anointed” then, they could never survive a serious “falling away” from God in apostasy, and later find themselves in a position to be “revived” spiritually. We know this because it would be IMPOSSIBLE to "REVIVE" someone or some nation of people, that had already been "anointed" before God, and that later fell into complete apostasy. The scriptures say this is completely "impossible." It is "impossible" the scriptures say, to "revive" an "anointed" person from apostasy or from a "falling away" [Greek: parapitos or "fall away" to apostasy]-- Hebrews 6:4-6

So as we mentioned earlier, Jehovah’s Witnesses, as “Israel” became such in 1931 when they willingly took the Name of God upon themselves and accepted Jesus Christ as their “mediator” between God and man. So then, it would be only by God's Permission, to allow this people, to take God's Great and Holy Name, upon themselves. By allowing this, Jehovah allowed a spiritual nation to be born, based upon the blood of Jesus, which would enable them as a whole to become "Israel" and to take the Divine Name upon themselves, to make it official. So since 1931, Jehovah's Witnesses, have become God's Name People, modern-day "Israel" of Bible Prophecy. And ever since that date, they have been in a situation of possibly running the risk of "falling away," from God's Truth and becoming real "apostates" in His eyes, as potential lawbreakers and ones who could possibly VIOLATE and BREAK his “holy covenant” with them, established in 1931. -- Numbers 6:27; Deut. 28:10; Daniel 11:30, 32; Ezekiel 16:59-63

(To Be Continued)

Posted: **Tue Jun 22, 2004 7:27 pm**

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JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES “REGENERATED” AS A NATION FROM APOSTASY -- HOW AND WHY?

Part 3.

At Matthew 19:28 we can envision the "12 tribes of Israel" to be an earthly group of people, who are working toward a complete spiritual "restoration" or spiritual "re-creation" upon earth. We can know this when we examine the original meaning of the word "Palingenesis" as translated "re-creation" in the NW Translation. (See footnote NW Trans. Ref. Bible) Also, we againe note a form of this same Greek word mentioned Titus 3:5 where Paul shows anointed footstep followers of Jesus had already experienced this, while on earth. They had already experienced this "palingenesis" or spiritual "restoration" while on earth, long before God would ever permit them to live in the heavens. This spiritual "restoration" or "palingenesis" then, would no doubt help them to QUALIFY for heavenly life. But they would have to experience it first, upon earth, before Jehovah would take them to heaven itself. (See footnote large print NW Trans. Ref. Bible on Titus 3:5 and "Palingenesis".)

Thus, we can see Matthew 19:28 as pointing forward to an EARTHLY experience that brings about true spiritual "restoration" before God, and becomes something that must occur for all servants of Jehovah, before their worship can be fully acceptable to Jehovah. This becomes then, the spiritual "restoration" of Israel, that the prophets of old spoke of. (Isaiah 2:2-4; Daniel 11:45; Acts 3:20, 21) So we can see this as a earthly spiritual restoration of things, that must occur "again", in our day, just like it did for first century christians when they left the Mosiac Law behind them, in their day. Paul revealed this for us as shown at Ephesians 1:8-10. Paul said that this spiritual "restoration" or "gathering together" of things must occur "AGAIN," -- again before "all things are gathered together" for Jehovah. This happens AGAIN, as he said, for the "things on the earth" as well as for "the things in the heavens." He also said that God would purpose to have a Special "Administration" to carry this out for Him. We (YORWW Congregation) believe this to be a Special EARTHLY "Administration" of God's making. And all of this would occur "AT THE FULL LIMIT OF THE APPOINTED TIMES," or at the time of the end, in the "last days" of this system of things.

Now, as for the timing of this "re-creation" and its happening, bible prophecy shows this is a future or coming situation, for all EARTHLY "Israel", who will be restored back to God's favor, in the not-to-distant future. But it occurs, only AFTER earthly "Israel" has received of the promised bitter discipline from God's Own Hand for their past sins. -- Isaiah 30:26; Jeremiah 23:19, 20; Micah 4:6, 7; Zeph. 3:9-11

yorww

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Review Questions For Article: Jehovah’s Witnesses Re-Generated As A Nation from Apostasy!

Part I

1. Why are Jesus’ words recorded at Matthew 28:20 not apropos during all of this time since the 1st century?

2. What is the most reasonable time to apply Jesus’ words?

3. What do Jehovah’s Witnesses believe will happen at Jesus’ second coming, but what does Paul at 1 Corinthians 15:23, 24 tell us it is associated with?

4. How does 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 show that ALL anointed ones are taken to heaven at the same time and not over an extended period of time?

5. According to 1 Corinthians 15:24, when does the earthly resurrection and the destruction of all governments that are in opposition to Jehovah’s government occur?

6. Why is it not appropriate or reasonable to believe that C. T. Russell or any of his associates were anointed when they were members of the churches of Christendom?

7. Did the nation that became “Israel” do so as a result of their having been anointed or must they qualify for an anointing after having been “Israel” for a time?

Part II

8. What can we glean from Jesus’ words at Matthew 19:28 concerning “Israel?”

9. How do we know that Jesus was not speaking here of members of 1st century Israel in Matthew 19:28 that needed a spiritual regeneration?

10. What did this “bath of Regeneration” found at Titus 3:5 mean for 1st century Israel?

11. How does Vines Expository of New Testament Words under the heading of “apostasy” help us to understand which Israel Jesus was speaking of at Matthew 19:28?

12. Under what circumstances did the ancient nation of Israel become God’s Special People, Israel?

13. What would be required today for a people to be considered modern-day “Israel?”

14. When did Jehovah’s Witnesses become Modern-day Israel, but what have they yet to receive?

15. Because they are modern-day Israel, what risk do they face that would not happen to any other of the world’s religions?

16. Had they been “anointed” upon becoming Israel and “fell away” from truth, what serious position would they have found themselves in?

Part III

17. When and where did 1st century members of the ancient nation of Israel experience a palingenesis or spiritual restoration? (Titus 3:5)

18. Modern-day Israel must experience what before their worship will be fully acceptable to Jehovah?

19. What did Paul have reference to at Ephesians 1:8-10 when he spoke of a “gathering together again” of things in the heavens and on earth at the “full limit of the appointed times?

20. After what event will this “spiritual restoration” or palingenesis occur for earthly Israel?

To get the answers for the review questions CLICK HERE.

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LivingWatersForum.com

Jehovah's Witnesses Re-Generated As A Nation From Apostasy!

Jehovah's Witnesses Re-Generated As A Nation From Apostasy!

Jehovah's Witnesses Re-Generated As A Nation From Apostasy!

Jehovah's Witnesses Re-Generated As A Nation From Apostasy!